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抄袭和借鉴边界:从 SU7、Mega、mini 开始,聊聊符号化设计_12.ylog

By: Steven
24 March 2025 at 07:20

这一期节目的录制时间是 2024 年 12 月底,当时 Toby 的新办公室刚装修完,我们从他正在开展的新工作开始,顺着「符号化」这个设计策略,聊到小米 SU7、理想 Mega 和新款 mini 的设计策略与执行。在这次对话中,我和 Toby 作为在设计行业一线做了二十年左右的设计师,一起探讨了各自对于「抄袭」和「借鉴」的理解和边界。

04:15 — 借鉴和抄袭之间有明确的边界吗?理想对 Mega 有信心和决心吗?为什么看上去几乎没变化的新 mini 反而是更激进的设计?小米 SU7 的决心比 Mega 大得多。相机消费者怎么看待和讨论「复刻」和「抄袭」的关系?谁在为「腰平取景器」买单?

21:45 — 为什么经典款的 1:64 小车模型永远最畅销?一句话区分抄袭与借鉴!

41:05 — 工业设计只聊造型是没有价值的!拍立得相纸是一门钻石生意。摄影玩家们对老品牌的溺爱,以及对新品牌的包容程度。符号是沟通和决策。好产品需要有专业认知的团队与设计师一起推进。

69:08 — 设计是沟通:我们跟德国车厂的合作经验。设计公司的模式高度同质化,是分裂复制的循环。未来的设计机构和品牌的区别:工作方式与理念的区别。

82:23 — 有趣的尺度怎么找?创作型 AI 是不是我们的敌人?

录制这期节目时,我嗓子哑了,如果觉得听感不佳,烦请见谅 🙂

欢迎在评论区留言发表你对本期节目的感受与看法。

|登场人物|

郑冬平 TobyBrainON 创始人,上善设计联合创始人

苏志斌:工业设计师,产品/设计咨询顾问

|相关图片|

Tesla Cybertruck

极氪 MIX(宝宝巴士)

新款 mini cooper

理想 Mega

小米 SU7

初照 M1 双反小相机

|拓展阅读|

BrainON 官网:www.brainon.design

初照:xiaohongshu.com/chuzhao

|BGM|

编曲:阿吉

演奏:阿吉

合成:阿吉

|相关链接|

若你所使用的播客客户端未能完整显示插图,或遇网络问题未能正常播放,请访问:

荒野楼阁 WildloG 的地址:https://suithink.me/zlink/podcast/

阅读设计相关的各类文章:https://suithink.me/zlink/idea/

|其他社交网络媒体|

苏志斌 @ 知乎|SUiTHiNK @ 即刻 / 微博

苏志斌SUiTHiNK @ Bilibili / YouTube / 小红书

|联络邮箱|

suithink.su@gmail.com

欢迎在 小宇宙、Spotify、YouTube、Apple Podcast 收听本节目,期待你的留言。

💾

Urban Revolutionaries: 2 Living in the city

By: hoakley
31 January 2025 at 20:30

For those who had arrived from the country, towns and cities were alien places. This article shows a selection of paintings of the ordinary parts where the common people lived and worked.

The city of Paris was substantially redeveloped by Georges-Eugène Haussmann during the middle of the nineteenth century, but his wide boulevards only displaced common people into cramped slums in other areas. Montmartre, for instance, wasn’t incorporated into the city until 1860, and in 1871 was the source of the uprising that became the Paris Commune.

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Pierre Bonnard (1867-1947), Rue Tholozé (Montmartre in the Rain) (1897), oil on paper on wood, 70 x 95 cm, Van Gogh Museum, Amsterdam, The Netherlands. The Athenaeum.

Pierre Bonnard’s Rue Tholozé or Montmartre in the Rain (1897) shows one of the streets at the heart of Montmartre, not far from the famous Sacré-Coeur. Seen from the third or fourth floor, it’s a grey and wet evening in which the lights of the windows provide a pervasive warm glow.

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Pierre Bonnard (1867-1947), Narrow Street in Paris (c 1897), oil on cardboard on wood, 37.1 x 19.6 cm, The Phillips Collection, Washington, DC. The Athenaeum.

Bonnard’s Narrow Street in Paris (c 1897) is an aerial view of a bustling backstreet.

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George Bellows (1882–1925), Cliff Dwellers (1913), oil on canvas, 102.1 × 106.8 cm, Los Angeles County Museum of Art, Los Angeles, CA. Wikimedia Commons.

George Bellows’ famous Cliff Dwellers (1913) shows the largely immigrant population of tenements in Lower East Side of New York City. Washing was hung out to dry on ropes strung between their wooden balconies.

coopercolumbuscircle
Colin Campbell Cooper (1856–1937), Columbus Circle (1909), oil on canvas, 66 × 91.4 cm, Allentown Art Museum, Allentown, PA. Wikimedia Commons.

Colin Campbell Cooper’s Columbus Circle from 1909 shows the interaction of jumbled buildings, light, smoke, and steam. With Gaetano Russo’s landmark statue of Christopher Columbus just to the right of centre, the circle had only been completed in 1905, as part of Frederick Law Olmsted’s vision for Central Park, off to the right. In the foreground, Cooper shows some of the more intimate sights of this new elevated world, with a woman hanging out her washing amid the chimneys.

Many cities grew around heavy industries, such as Charleroi in the Black Country of Belgium.

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Maximilien Luce (1858–1941), The Slag-Heaps of Sacré Madame (1897), oil on canvas, 67 x 94 cm, Musée des Beaux-Arts de la ville de Paris, Paris. Wikimedia Commons.

Maximilien Luce’s Slag-Heaps of Sacré Madame from 1897 is perhaps a unique view of this city. Slag heaps or spoil tips were an inevitable sight in coal-mining country. They’re formed from the spoil or waste removed from underground, and don’t contain slag, the by-products of metal smelting. Mining spoil is frequently toxic, and can result in disastrous landslides.

Few cities enjoyed the cleaner air that most do today. In London, in particular, ‘smogs’ composed of a toxic mixture of smoke and fog caused the deaths of many thousands each winter. It wasn’t until well into the twentieth century that any effort was made to reduce smoke emissions from industry and domestic heating.

thaulowthesmoke
Frits Thaulow (1847–1906), The Smoke (1898), media and dimensions not known, Private collection. The Athenaeum.

Frits Thaulow’s The Smoke from 1898 shows a suburb overwhelmed by smoke, with houses crammed up against factory walls. Few cities enforced any separation between industrial areas and housing, and there were no restrictions on the discharge of smoke even in densely populated zones.

rolllargetownsmoke
Alfred Philippe Roll (1846–1919), A Large Town of Smoke (date not known), oil on canvas, 68.5 x 83.5 cm, Museu Antônio Parreiras, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Wikimedia Commons.

Alfred Roll’s undated sketch of A Large Town of Smoke probably dates from the same period.

luceindustrialcity
Maximilien Luce (1858–1941), Industrial City (1899), oil on masonite, dimensions not known, Honolulu Museum of Art, Honolulu, Hawai’i. Wikimedia Commons.

Whereas the French Impressionists gave small glimpses of smoke billowing from the chimneys of factories sprawling out around Paris, Maximilien Luce painted Industrial City in 1899, again probably around Charleroi.

brachthoeschstahlwerk1905
Eugen Bracht (1842–1921), Hoesch Steelworks from the North (1905), oil on canvas, 70 x 86 cm, location not known. Wikimedia Commons.

The largest employer in the German city of Dortmund was its steelworks, founded in 1871. In 1905, Eugen Bracht painted this Impressionist view of the Hoesch Steelworks from the North, with its tall chimneys and their plumes of acrid smoke.

brachthoesch1907
Eugen Bracht (1842–1921), Hoesch Iron and Steel Plant, Dortmund (1907), oil on canvas, 137 x 136 cm, location not known. Wikimedia Commons.

Two years later, Bracht returned to paint the Hoesch Iron and Steel Plant, Dortmund (1907).

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Constantin Meunier (1831–1905), Black Country – Borinage (date not known), oil on canvas, dimensions not known, Meunier Museum, Brussels, Belgium. Image by Szilas, via Wikimedia Commons.

Constantin Meunier painted in the Borinage, another mining area to the west of Charleroi in Belgium. His undated Black Country – Borinage shows the area where Vincent van Gogh lived between 1878-80, then one of the major coal mining areas in Europe. The tower at the left is the pit head, where trucks of freshly cut coal were brought to the surface.

meuniercoronwomenchat
Constantin Meunier (1831–1905), Coron, Women having a Chat (date not known), oil on canvas, dimensions not known, Meunier Museum, Brussels, Belgium. Image by Szilas, via Wikimedia Commons.

Meunier’s Coron, Women having a Chat gives insight into the close communities in these areas, and shows the main drain running down the middle of the street. Coron refers to the local housing of the working class in northern France and Belgium, the equivalent of Britain’s back-to-back miners’ cottages.

lucepiledrivers
Maximilien Luce (1858–1941), The Pile Drivers (1902-3), oil on canvas, 153 x 195 cm, Musée d’Orsay, Paris. Wikimedia Commons.

The Pile Drivers (1902-3) is one of Luce’s explorations of the working life of the common man in Paris. Construction work in the French capital continued to be active well into the early twentieth century, and Luce painted its many facets. The factories on the opposite bank have infiltrated surrounding residential and commercial districts, only to fill the air with plumes of smoke.

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